What Happens In Our Heads Before We Walk Out The Door

Erica Bell

Okay. Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm Erica Bell, here with Ethan Cole. And Ethan — before we do anything today — I need to ask you something.

Ethan Cole

That's a face I don't trust.

Erica Bell

It's one question.

Ethan Cole

It's never one question.

Erica Bell

Last time you got dressed for something that actually mattered — not the gym, not a grocery run — how many times did you change?

Ethan Cole

Define change.

Erica Bell

Put something on. Look at yourself. Take it off.

Ethan Cole

That's very specific criteria.

Erica Bell

Ethan.

Ethan Cole

It was a work thing—

Erica Bell

How many.

Ethan Cole

...five.

Erica Bell

FIVE.

Ethan Cole

It was an important—

Erica Bell

Five shirts.

Ethan Cole

I was making a decision—

Erica Bell

What were you deciding about?

Ethan Cole

...whether I looked like I had my life together.

Erica Bell

Oh.

Ethan Cole

What?

Erica Bell

Nothing. I changed eight outfits last week.

Ethan Cole

Eight?

Erica Bell

Don't.

Ethan Cole

I'm just—

Erica Bell

Don't start.

Ethan Cole

I'm trying to be supportive.

Erica Bell

You are failing at that. So here's what we're doing today. What actually happens in our heads before we walk out the door.

Ethan Cole

That's the whole topic?

Erica Bell

That's the whole topic. Because I think we each assume the other side has this figured out.

Ethan Cole

I assumed you had a system.

Erica Bell

I have a system. It's called panic with extra steps.

Ethan Cole

That's not a system—

Erica Bell

It runs every time, Ethan. Very reliable.

Ethan Cole

I thought women just — knew what they were doing. Like there was a process and it worked.

Erica Bell

Oh, there's a process. The process does not work.

Ethan Cole

And I used to think men just got dressed.

Erica Bell

And?

Ethan Cole

We do not just get dressed.

Erica Bell

No.

Ethan Cole

It turns out.

Erica Bell

It really turns out. Okay. Let me tell you what eight outfits actually sounds like from the inside.

Ethan Cole

I assumed it was fun. Like — options. A little spin. You pick the good one.

Erica Bell

A spin.

Ethan Cole

Like in a movie.

Erica Bell

At one point I sat on the floor.

Ethan Cole

You — sorry, the floor?

Erica Bell

Between outfits four and five. I sat down on my closet floor and stared at the ceiling.

Ethan Cole

That's not a spin.

Erica Bell

There was no spin. There was a ceiling and some feelings.

Ethan Cole

Why were you on the floor.

Erica Bell

Because I lost track of which pile was the yes pile and which pile was the no pile—

Ethan Cole

There were PILES—

Erica Bell

There are always piles! That's how outfits work!

Ethan Cole

I don't have piles—

Erica Bell

You have five shirts on your bed—

Ethan Cole

That's — that's different—

Erica Bell

How.

Ethan Cole

...it's a smaller pile.

Erica Bell

It's still a pile, Ethan.

Ethan Cole

Okay. Fine. It's a pile.

Erica Bell

Walk me through the shirts. What was the actual thought process?

Ethan Cole

Shirt one — the one I planned to wear. Put it on. Immediately thought: does this look like I tried too hard?

Erica Bell

Wait. That's exactly what I thought about outfit two.

Ethan Cole

Shirt two — too casual. Now I look like I don't care, which I do, but I can't look like I care—

Erica Bell

THAT'S WORD FOR WORD WHAT HAPPENED WITH OUTFIT THREE—

Ethan Cole

Shirt three — okay. This one said: doing fine. Not flashy, not falling apart. Just fine.

Erica Bell

And you went with shirt three.

Ethan Cole

Shirt three.

Erica Bell

After twenty minutes.

Ethan Cole

After a reasonable evaluation period, yes.

Erica Bell

I was on the floor for longer than your reasonable evaluation period.

Ethan Cole

The floor keeps coming up.

Erica Bell

It was a low point. We don't linger. Tell me — what were you actually worried about? Not the shirt. Underneath the shirt.

Ethan Cole

Competence. Like — do I look like someone who isn't falling apart.

Erica Bell

And do you feel like you're falling apart?

Ethan Cole

No. But I'm worried about whether it reads as falling apart.

Erica Bell

That's different.

Ethan Cole

Yeah.

Erica Bell

That's performing okay-ness.

Ethan Cole

...I didn't have a word for it. But yeah.

Erica Bell

Mine is different.

Ethan Cole

What's yours.

Erica Bell

Am I too much.

Ethan Cole

Too much how.

Erica Bell

Any way. Too loud. Too excited. Too dressed up, too dressed down, too whatever. I walk in and I've already made it weird and I haven't said anything yet.

Ethan Cole

That's—

Erica Bell

That's underneath every outfit, Ethan. Every single one. Even the floor outfit.

Ethan Cole

Mine is the opposite.

Erica Bell

What?

Ethan Cole

Not too much. Not enough.

Ethan Cole

Like — is this version of me, in shirt three, actually worth showing up.

Ethan Cole

What.

Erica Bell

Nothing.

Ethan Cole

You have the face.

Erica Bell

I don't have a face—

Ethan Cole

It's the concerned face, Erica, I can see it from here—

Erica Bell

I'm just listening—

Ethan Cole

You're listening with your whole head—

Erica Bell

You are worth showing up, Ethan—

Ethan Cole

We're not doing this—

Erica Bell

Shirt three AND BEYOND—

Ethan Cole

I would like to continue the episode—

Erica Bell

I'm just SAYING—

Ethan Cole

I know what you're saying. Can you say it quieter.

Erica Bell

You're worth showing up.

Ethan Cole

...okay. Moving on.

Erica Bell

Wait. Say that again. What you said before.

Ethan Cole

Which part.

Erica Bell

I'm worried about being too much.

Ethan Cole

And I'm worried about not being enough.

Erica Bell

We're standing in front of different mirrors having the same panic.

Ethan Cole

Yeah.

Erica Bell

At the same time.

Ethan Cole

Apparently.

Erica Bell

And neither of us knew.

Ethan Cole

No.

Erica Bell

That's kind of—

Ethan Cole

Don't say beautiful.

Erica Bell

I was going to say SAD.

Ethan Cole

Oh. Yeah. That too.

Erica Bell

Both.

Ethan Cole

Both.

Erica Bell

Okay. We should probably do something stupid now.

Ethan Cole

The hands.

Erica Bell

I was going to say the hands.

Ethan Cole

See, this is why I don't tell you things.

Erica Bell

Tell them about the hands.

Ethan Cole

I would genuinely prefer not to.

Erica Bell

Ethan stared at his hands for seven minutes before a dinner.

Ethan Cole

I didn't say seven—

Erica Bell

You said seven.

Ethan Cole

I may have said "a few"—

Erica Bell

You said seven. It was very specific. That's how I knew it was true.

Ethan Cole

...it was around seven.

Erica Bell

What were you looking for?

Ethan Cole

...whether they looked like the hands of a competent person.

Erica Bell

What do competent hands look like?

Ethan Cole

That's what I was trying to figure out.

Erica Bell

For seven minutes.

Ethan Cole

I didn't find an answer.

Erica Bell

And then what?

Ethan Cole

I concluded they looked like hands.

Erica Bell

Seven minutes. To conclude: hands.

Ethan Cole

It felt important at the time.

Erica Bell

Front and back?

Ethan Cole

...front and back.

Erica Bell

FRONT AND BACK—

Ethan Cole

There's a lot of surface area—

Erica Bell

You were doing a full hand audit—

Ethan Cole

I was being thorough—

Erica Bell

For COMPETENCE—

Ethan Cole

I'm aware of how it sounds.

Erica Bell

I sat on a closet floor. You audited your hands. We're the same person.

Ethan Cole

We are not the same person.

Erica Bell

We are the same person in different shirts.

Ethan Cole

That feels unfair.

Erica Bell

Is it inaccurate?

Ethan Cole

...moving on.

Erica Bell

Okay. The six photos.

Ethan Cole

The document situation.

Erica Bell

I sent six photos to my best friend. Different angles. With notes.

Ethan Cole

Written notes.

Erica Bell

Organized by category.

Ethan Cole

By CATEGORY.

Erica Bell

Photo one: front view, does anything look weird or is that just how I stand. Photo two: side angle, be completely honest. Photo three: this is the mirror selfie angle which I know isn't realistic but I need data—

Ethan Cole

You needed DATA—

Erica Bell

Photos four through six were follow-up coverage of outstanding concerns—

Ethan Cole

OUTSTANDING CONCERNS. About an outfit.

Erica Bell

There were several unresolved areas!

Ethan Cole

And your friend received all of this.

Erica Bell

With the notes, yes.

Ethan Cole

And then what did she say.

Erica Bell

"You look great in all of them, pick one and go."

Ethan Cole

That's a complete answer.

Erica Bell

I texted back "but which ONE."

Ethan Cole

She gave you an answer—

Erica Bell

She gave me a category—

Ethan Cole

THE CATEGORY WAS THE ANSWER—

Erica Bell

I needed a ranking, you can't just say ALL OF THEM—

Ethan Cole

What did she say?

Erica Bell

Voice note. Long sigh. No words.

Ethan Cole

That's a great friend.

Erica Bell

She loves me and she is very tired.

Ethan Cole

Those aren't different things. What's your version of this? You have one.

Ethan Cole

I check my reflection in the back of my phone.

Erica Bell

The back of your phone.

Ethan Cole

Before I walk into anywhere. Quick check. Nobody knows.

Erica Bell

Ethan. You are holding your phone face-down staring at it. Everyone knows.

Ethan Cole

I look casual—

Erica Bell

You look like you're reading a very boring book.

Ethan Cole

It's discreet—

Erica Bell

What are you checking for?

Ethan Cole

General okay-ness.

Erica Bell

General okay-ness. So you run yourself through a phone-case quality control—

Ethan Cole

I wouldn't describe it like—

Erica Bell

—and I send six photos to a woman who sighs at me.

Ethan Cole

Yours takes longer.

Erica Bell

Mine has better documentation.

Ethan Cole

...that's fair.

Erica Bell

What did you actually think was happening on the women's side? What did eight outfits look like to you?

Ethan Cole

Honest answer?

Erica Bell

Please.

Ethan Cole

Fun. Like a montage. Try stuff on. Little spin. Pick the winner.

Erica Bell

A spin.

Ethan Cole

Like in movies.

Erica Bell

I was on the floor, Ethan.

Ethan Cole

I didn't know about the floor.

Erica Bell

Nobody knows about the floor! We post "outfit crisis!" on social media like it's a cute bit—

Ethan Cole

And it's not a bit.

Erica Bell

It's a genuine distress signal that we made aesthetic because otherwise it's just a breakdown.

Ethan Cole

We made the breakdown aesthetic.

Erica Bell

Because that's what we do!

Ethan Cole

So we're all lying.

Erica Bell

Basically.

Ethan Cole

Collectively.

Erica Bell

Collectively.

Ethan Cole

That seems unhealthy.

Erica Bell

It's very unhealthy. What did you think I was actually worried about when I was changing?

Ethan Cole

Colors. Whether it was the right vibe for the occasion. Whether you'd look cute.

Erica Bell

Those are the surface worries. The ones I'm allowed to say out loud.

Ethan Cole

What's underneath.

Erica Bell

Whether I'm attractive enough. Whether my body looks the way it's supposed to look. Whether I walk in and everyone there is more put-together and I just — know it immediately.

Ethan Cole

I didn't know it was that.

Erica Bell

What did you think it was?

Ethan Cole

Something lighter.

Erica Bell

It's never lighter than that.

Ethan Cole

I'm actually kind of annoyed right now.

Erica Bell

At what?

Ethan Cole

That we've both been doing this — standing there, quietly terrified — and assuming the other side had it figured out.

Erica Bell

Right?

Ethan Cole

That's a lot of wasted mirror time.

Erica Bell

So much mirror time.

Ethan Cole

We could have just—

Erica Bell

Said something?

Ethan Cole

Yeah.

Erica Bell

Yeah.

Ethan Cole

Okay. That got heavy. We should do something stupid.

Erica Bell

I agree. The "fine" thing.

Ethan Cole

Oh. Yeah.

Erica Bell

I want to ask you something and I need you to actually engage with it.

Ethan Cole

The tone of that sentence worries me.

Erica Bell

Do women have it harder?

Ethan Cole

No.

Erica Bell

Ethan.

Ethan Cole

I'm not emotionally prepared for that fight.

Erica Bell

I'm not asking you to fight me. I'm asking you to think.

Ethan Cole

Those are the same thing when you use that voice.

Erica Bell

I'm being CALM—

Ethan Cole

You're being calm in a loud way—

Erica Bell

The body stuff, Ethan. The "am I too much" stuff. Does that happen to men or is it just the shirt situation?

Ethan Cole

It's not just the shirt situation.

Erica Bell

Then what is it?

Ethan Cole

I stood in front of my mirror for twenty-five minutes before a first date once. Thinking about whether I was the kind of man she'd been hoping to meet. Or whether I was going to be the reason she went home and texted her friend "he was fine."

Erica Bell

"He was fine."

Ethan Cole

Not bad. Not great. Just fine.

Erica Bell

That is my exact fear. That I'm just fine.

Ethan Cole

From different directions. You're afraid of being too much and landing on fine. I'm afraid of not being enough and landing on fine.

Erica Bell

We're both trying to avoid the same word.

Ethan Cole

Yeah.

Erica Bell

Fine is the worst possible outcome.

Ethan Cole

Absolutely the worst.

Erica Bell

Worse than bad?

Ethan Cole

Bad means you made an impression. Fine means you were furniture.

Erica Bell

Furniture.

Ethan Cole

Present. Functional. Forgettable.

Erica Bell

I hate that. That's exactly it.

Ethan Cole

Yeah.

Erica Bell

So who has it harder?

Ethan Cole

Neither of us.

Erica Bell

That's a dodge.

Ethan Cole

It's a diplomatic answer.

Erica Bell

Women have more outfits.

Ethan Cole

That's what I was going to say—

Erica Bell

More options means more decisions means more floor-sitting means more photos means more sighing friends—

Ethan Cole

Okay but men have the hands—

Erica Bell

The HANDS—

Ethan Cole

That's a specific burden that women don't carry—

Erica Bell

Women have hands TOO, Ethan—

Ethan Cole

Not in the same way—

Erica Bell

What does that MEAN—

Ethan Cole

I don't know, I'm trying to win an argument—

Erica Bell

You just admitted that—

Ethan Cole

I panicked! I'm under pressure!

Erica Bell

You panicked in real time!

Ethan Cole

I would like the record to show I panicked and I'm not proud of it.

Erica Bell

Noted. Recorded. Moving on. I think the honest answer is we have different versions of the same hard thing.

Ethan Cole

Yeah. Mine just involves hands.

Erica Bell

Mine involves a document.

Ethan Cole

Same mirror. Different conversation.

Erica Bell

That's kind of—

Ethan Cole

Don't.

Erica Bell

I was going to say RELATABLE—

Ethan Cole

You were loading up to say something soft.

Erica Bell

It's relatable, Ethan! That's all! We're both human and it's relatable!

Ethan Cole

...it is relatable.

Erica Bell

Thank you.

Ethan Cole

You're welcome. Do you want to do the cover stories now?

Erica Bell

I want to do the cover stories.

Erica Bell

What do you say when you show up somewhere and you've clearly been through a whole thing?

Ethan Cole

"I'm not really a clothes person."

Erica Bell

You changed five shirts.

Ethan Cole

I'm not a clothes person who happened to have a specific shirt situation on this occasion.

Erica Bell

That's not a category.

Ethan Cole

It's a niche.

Erica Bell

What else.

Ethan Cole

"I almost didn't come." Like I'm very busy and important and this wasn't even on my radar.

Erica Bell

While you were standing there in shirt three.

Ethan Cole

While I was thoroughly committed to shirt three, yes.

Erica Bell

Mine is "I just threw this on."

Ethan Cole

After the document.

Erica Bell

After the document, the photos, the sigh, the floor—

Ethan Cole

"I just threw it on."

Erica Bell

Effortlessly.

Ethan Cole

Do people believe that?

Erica Bell

People want to believe it. That's different.

Ethan Cole

So we're all just—

Erica Bell

Agreeing to pretend. Yes. Collectively.

Ethan Cole

That's the second time you've said collectively.

Erica Bell

It bears repeating.

Ethan Cole

What would happen if someone just — didn't? Just said "yeah, I changed five times, I was nervous, I didn't know what to wear."

Erica Bell

People would go: oh thank god. Me too.

Ethan Cole

You think?

Erica Bell

Every single time. Because everyone has the floor moment.

Ethan Cole

Or the hand moment.

Erica Bell

Or the seven-minute competence audit.

Ethan Cole

I need that phrase to stop following me.

Erica Bell

It lives here now.

Ethan Cole

See, this is why I don't tell you things.

Erica Bell

You tell me things every week!

Ethan Cole

And every week I sit here and think — why did I do that.

Erica Bell

And then what happens.

Ethan Cole

And then I come back next week and tell you more things.

Erica Bell

Because?

Ethan Cole

Because it turns out talking about it is — fine is the wrong word—

Erica Bell

Better than not talking about it?

Ethan Cole

Don't make that a moment.

Erica Bell

I'm not making it a moment.

Ethan Cole

You have the face.

Erica Bell

Ethan. I'm just agreeing with you.

Ethan Cole

With that face!

Erica Bell

This is just my face!

Ethan Cole

It's the emotional support face and I need it to be a regular face right now.

Erica Bell

...okay. Regular face.

Ethan Cole

Thank you.

Erica Bell

For what it's worth—

Ethan Cole

Please don't—

Erica Bell

The hands thing is genuinely my favorite thing anyone has ever told me on this show.

Ethan Cole

...I don't know how to respond to that.

Erica Bell

You don't have to.

Ethan Cole

I would like the record to show I'm not responding to that.

Erica Bell

Noted. Last question. Did shirt three work?

Ethan Cole

What do you mean did it work.

Erica Bell

You walked in. Did it do what you needed it to do?

Ethan Cole

For about the first ten minutes. And then I forgot about it completely.

Erica Bell

Because?

Ethan Cole

The conversation got good. I stopped thinking about the shirt.

Erica Bell

Right. That's always how it goes. Eight outfits. Six photos. One sigh. The floor. And then you walk in and you're just — there. And you're just you. And none of it matters anymore.

Ethan Cole

Which was the goal the whole time.

Erica Bell

Which was the goal the whole time.

Ethan Cole

Shirt three still helped a little though.

Erica Bell

Yeah?

Ethan Cole

It was a good shirt.

Erica Bell

And the black dress was a good dress.

Ethan Cole

Worth going back to outfit one for?

Erica Bell

Worth every single thing that happened between outfit one and outfit eight. Including the floor.

Ethan Cole

The floor is where the decision got made.

Erica Bell

The floor is exactly where the decision got made.

Ethan Cole

I'm going to think about that more than I want to.

Erica Bell

That's the show. Okay. See you next week.

Ethan Cole

Hey — nobody was paying as much attention as you thought they were.

Erica Bell

That's weirdly comforting.

Ethan Cole

It should be.

Erica Bell

See you next week.

Ethan Cole

See you next week.